'1% for the Planet is Proof Capitalism Can be Done Differently.’ Kate Williams on the rise of a global movement.

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👉 Why listen?

What if 1% of everything you bought helped buy you a better world? That's the good idea behind 1% for the Planet.

With thousands of members who have collectively donated over US$846 million to help our home planet, it's one of sustainability's great success stories. So why has it been so successful when other attempts to get companies to fund things that help people and planet have failed?

In this episode, CEO Kate Williams breaks down some of the many reasons, including:

💡 It's a simple idea. A company can’t commit to something it doesn’t understand. 1% for the Planet keeps things simple: give 1% of sales to support the planet that supports you. Easy to understand, easy to explain and easy to account for.

👍 Credibility comes built in. One big challenge in supporting a cause is knowing the impact is real. 1% for the Planet vets environmental nonprofits, then certifies member giving to approved partners. This means orgs can be trusted, impact is verified and companies don't have to source and screen on their own.

😊 Employees can get involved. With thousands of vetted partners, it’s easy to give employees the chance to choose which the company funds, giving them a feeling of ownership. This creates a clear business benefit via measurable employee engagement.

📣 The story tells itself. 1% is easy to explain to customers. In fact, you don’t need to explain it. This makes it easy to create brand loyalty and give people a reason to choose your product.

🤝 It helps you find your tribe. Working out how to run a company in a way that is good for people and planet can be a lonely journey. With almost 12K member and partner orgs, 1% makes it easy to find and connect with like-minded organisations. 

Kate also gives some good advice for young people looking to get into a purpose-led career, as well as some hot tips on how to reverse a truck with a trailer. Yes, she is a multi-talented legend.

Learn more at www.onepercentfortheplanet.org 

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We gave AI a listen to the episode, and here’s what it had to say…

A tiny pledge, a big shift: we sit down with Kate Williams, CEO of 1% for the Planet, to explore how a simple, certified commitment—1% of annual revenue to vetted environmental partners—turns good intentions into durable impact. Kate breaks down why this model works: direct relationships between businesses and nonprofits, annual certification for credibility, and a global community that shares tactics for brand lift, employee engagement, and measurable outcomes.

We dig into the psychology of action and why simplicity beats overwhelm. Rather than freeze at trillion‑dollar estimates, start with a number everyone understands. Make it local and emotional—your trail, your surf break, your park—then layer in data to drive solutions. Kate shares how members embed the commitment across hiring, volunteering, and staff-led partner selection, and how that internal pride often translates into customer loyalty and sales lift. We also highlight a gritty, under-told story: Thin Green Line’s work training rangers who protect wildlife and habitats at great personal risk.

If you care about climate, nature, brand trust, or the future of business, this conversation offers a clear playbook: keep it simple, repeat it together, and lock it in where it counts. Subscribe, share with a fellow change-maker, and leave a review with the one cause you’d choose for your 1%.

Full Episode Transcript

Ben: 0:05

What if 1% of everything you bought helps buy you a better world? That's the good idea behind 1% for the planet. Founded in 2002 by Patagonia Devon Chouanard and Craig Matthews from Blue Ribbon Flies, 1% now has over 4,000 member companies who have collectively channeled over 800 million US dollars to things that help improve our home planet. It's money I'm sure you'll agree is much needed, and an innovative business model that sets up a whole new way of thinking about the interaction between businesses and the environment they rely on. In fact, we all rely on to thrive. Kate Williams has been CEO there for over 10 years, and she's here to tell us all about it today. Welcome, Kate. Thank you. So could you tell me what is 1% for the Planet and how does it work?

Kate Williams: 0:49

I would love to tell you that. So 1% for the Planet is a global movement founded, as you said, by the awesome Yvonne and Craig. And we are a movement-building model. Basically, the two of them realized that their companies doing their parts was good, but insufficient ultimately, that we really need to create a glow this global movement that creates a way for all businesses, every business everywhere, to participate. And so that's our work. And the way we do it is it's a sort of simple model, simple action, but high credibility, high impact. And so business members commit to giving 1% of their annual sales or revenues or turnover to environmental partners. And we manage that whole ecosystem. So we engage the companies, we advise them on their giving strategies, we vet the nonprofit partners and so that we can provide credible, sort of trusted partners for the businesses. They give directly, businesses give directly to the nonprofits. We don't take it in and pass it out. We let the direct relationships form and then we certify it annually. So we really are a movement builder, we're an ecosystem builder, and we're making a lot happen.

Ben: 2:00

So you kind of make it easy and you make it credible. Exactly.

Kate Williams: 2:05

Yeah. That's our goal is to reduce the barriers to doing things that may not be sort of in the normal business vernacular. And so that we can engage people and then create a way for it to add a lot of value. So that by the time a member has spent a year or two with us, they're like, I can't imagine running my business without doing this because this is so core to it's not just an extra at the end of the year. This is core to who we are and how we do our business.

Ben: 2:30

That's interesting. So because I can imagine there'd be a lot of teams out there thinking, oh, we should do something to do with donating to nature fundamentally. But setting it up is just a huge challenge. Plus getting it through, obviously, if you're in a sustainability team or any team, trying to ladder this through is difficult because where's the obvious short-term business benefit? And obviously you're taking the friction out of it, making it simple, putting it there on a plate. What do you find is that core fundamental motivator that gets them interested to start with in doing this?

Kate Williams: 3:00

It varies across companies. For some companies, you know, and particularly our early adopters, there was kind of a like it's the right thing to do. And we love that. And I think that's a piece of the puzzle for most of our members ultimately. But then as we've grown and as we have more kind of stories and uh examples in the marketplace, we have so many kind of a toolbox essentially, and different companies might select a different tool. So employee engagement, we've seen a lot of value for companies when they um are able to inform and engage their employees that their engagement scores go up. So it's been a strong tool for that. And I would say that's been particularly true recently. Um brand loyalty, so kind of a customer connection and a channel of amazing content about these partnerships. And we have seen, again, particularly recently, some really nice examples of how brand loyalty and brand awareness increases for these companies that engage and embed 1% for the planet. Some sales lift. So we have some stories and examples of either direct campaigns that led to some sales growth or some like correlation between overall revenue growth and engagement. And then the last thing I'd say, although there's more like kind of sub-values, but is it's a great community. So a lot of businesses, particularly the business leaders, are like, this is awesome. This gives me the community of peers that I've been looking for because I think to you know do something that's slightly different can often feel lonely and you don't know really, is this the right way to do it or how did they solve for that? You don't know who to ask because it's not going to be necessarily part of your kind of local business chamber group. And so I think the peer group has been, you know, a really valuable part of the puzzle and the process for our members.

Ben: 4:43

So bringing people together, being part of something bigger rather than we go this alone. Yes. When I look at the companies, obviously there's 4,000 of them. I haven't looked through them all, but I've looked through a lot of the Australian ones. I mean, Patagonia being a founder is clear, but we've got like Keep Cup Four Pines, which is fairly well known for their engagement in this area. Koala mattresses, who started off with the whole thing of like we help koalas, which is sort of part of their opening conversation with the market. Do you find this suits certain companies over others, or do you find it it's not about sector? It's more about the ethos behind the company.

Kate Williams: 5:15

Yeah, I think we're learning more and more about that. And I would say it's more ethos because we and we have, you know, pretty good evidence in the way our community is constructed to make the case for that. So we now have like 65 different industries represented across that network of more than 4,000 members, and no more than 10% of the network is in any one of those industries. So of course that doesn't represent all the industries in the world. So there's probably some sector allocation, but truly, we're seeing like more diversity than commonality in terms of what the companies are doing as their core business. But we're seeing a lot of common ground in terms of how they're seeing that engaging in the 1% for the planet model adds value to their overall effort to have their business contribute to positive outcomes for the planet.

Ben: 6:03

And look, obviously, the last few years hasn't been the best for sustainability. A few years before everyone was climbing over themselves to have the biggest target, et cetera. Do you find this has been a great kind of bulkhead for those companies going, no, no, no, no, we are in this for the long term. We're not in this for the business cycles to kind of gather around and go, we're not alone? Because it is very hard if you're a person in a company going, no, no, we should stick with this and everyone's seeing everyone else back out of what they were doing. Do you find it's helping to keep the pace of the true believers, so to speak?

Kate Williams: 6:35

Yeah, absolutely. And we hear this from our members that when they're facing new tariffs, for example, that totally change their math. They're not coming to us like, oh, great, we were looking for an excuse to get out, we're out. It's more like help us to figure out how we can continue to stay involved. So we definitely see it as something that really does create, like many commitments, a valuable way to stay engaged even when the going gets tough. And our retention rate this year is really good proof positive of that. Even as it's been a very challenging year in the sustainability space generally, as you noted, our retention rate, like the number of members who are continuing as members, has been one of our highest rates yet. So that's a very strong indicator. And one just like particular quote from a member or story from a member, they were talking about the value of membership for them. And they said, you know, 1% for the planet is our accountability partner for the long term. We could do initiatives and then be done with those initiatives, like, you know, some sustainability initiative and have an out. Like we could say, okay, that initiative is done. We're gonna move on. What's next? Or like, great, now we can just quietly walk away. With 1% every single year, 1% of revenues, you have that commitment. And so he said it's really been this good like accountability partner and kind of discipline partner. Cause it's like, no, no, this is a commitment that's bigger than any single initiative. So that was I found that a helpful description of the value.

Ben: 8:03

That is a very good description. It's interesting the value of a target, isn't it? I remember listening to Ray Anderson from Interface Floor say he always set 100% targets because he said if you set 90%, everyone thinks they're the 10%. Um and this is interesting because it's kind of almost the opposite. It's like going 1% is kind of the minimum percent, right? And just by setting something that's so small but consistent, it keeps the threat in the company. I'm really interested in the value of that. 1% does what it says on the tin. You don't have to explain it. Like where's so many other things? We're part of this, therefore this, therefore this, therefore this, and you just lose people in the length of the conversation. How important do you think that absolute simplicity at the pinnacle of the message makes it work?

Kate Williams: 8:49

Super important. I think you're spot on because I do think what we have created is something that is very simple at the sort of high level, simple and accurate and credible. And then all the beautiful complexity of how we drive impact, who our partners all, you know, people have a chance to sort of move into that. But throughout it all, the model itself remains like it's a simple action, it's a simple commitment. And consumers can get it, businesses can get it. And so you can kind of grab onto that, and it's never gonna be wrong. And you get to kind of then just like go deeper and deeper and deeper as you get more comfortable with that.

Ben: 9:25

Yeah, but starting with a message that everyone gets is fundamental. And that is a problem in the sustainability kind of nature world. Let's be honest. It's a complicated space, hard to make simple.

Kate Williams: 9:36

Yes, absolutely. And I really think, and just to really kind of cosign on that, we do just underscore that, you know, our theory of change hinges on that. So it's that simple actions done repeatedly in community are how we drive, how we change the world, essentially. And so that like the simple action is so core and that belief in like repetitive, you know, when you train for something to become good at something, you don't just like do it a lot on one day and then you're done. It's like about those consistent commitments. And so those are sometimes hard to maintain. And so creating a model where you can do those simple steps again and again and again, I think is where it all happens.

Ben: 10:13

So I believe if you want to get good at something, the official number is seven minutes a day, which seems like a very strange minute. So why not do 10 or five? But seven minutes a day. But you're absolutely right, is consistency beats kind of big every so often. There's a lot to learn for that uh across many things. With regard to the label, obviously we've talked about the simplicity of it. One of the things I found, you know, I've worked with Fairtrade and other people like that across the past. And I found one of the great challenges is that businesses will buy into the label if the label is well known by consumers. But then often the label doesn't have the money to promote the label, so they want the business buying into it to promote the label, and it's this circular argument. Yet somehow 1% seems to have really broken that mold and become super understood and super well known super quickly. I think there's a stat on your website that says like 70% of consumers recognize it. What's your thoughts on that?

Kate Williams: 11:02

Yeah, it is really important and it is something we have intentionally invested in ourselves. Like we've really worked hard to dial in that message, and we've really leaned into the fact that we have the opportunity of a network effect. So, really encouraging and equipping our members to help tell the story. So then it's way more than little old us putting stuff out through our channels. It's us plus this thousands of businesses, thousands of nonprofits radiating out a beautiful, complex, diverse story, but all centered around this simple message, simple logo. And huge credit to our brand and marketing team for just really consistently centering and helping all of us to on the team to be really clear that growing the brand is not a fluffy, nice extra. Growing the brand is how we engage businesses, ensure that businesses can feel confident that consumers will recognize it. So then this like a beautiful cycle of consumer awareness, driving sales, driving impact can happen. And we do test it. So we're pretty intentional about it. And for Australia, just recently, our highest purchase intent is in Australia. So in our survey that we did last year, 49% of people in Australia would be influenced to purchase because of the logo. So I think you're right. We have been able to tip a little bit from getting that network effect really working for us so that we have that great recognition, which again, you know, we see as super core as an impact driver because the more awareness there is, the stronger this whole effort can be. And that all translates into impact.

Ben: 12:36

Yeah, you can certainly see a day when it's wrong for a company not to be doing this country.

Kate Williams: 12:42

Yeah, exactly. And one other just stat to share is also about Australia, which we just are it's like fascinated by and we love 65% of 18 to 34 year olds in Australia would be influenced to purchase because of the 1% for the planet logo. That's a super high number.

Ben: 12:59

You're making me proud of my country.

Kate Williams: 13:00

Yes, I know.

Ben: 13:02

Oh, Australia, for sure. So talking of embedding and those things, it's interesting because what you've just said there is your brand marketing team plays a strong role in this, but also the companies play a strong role in this when they tell the story. But imagine that a big part of that is employees of that, those companies, which you did mention before. What have you seen companies do well that do embed this through their whole company so that all of their employees become kind of ambassadors, able to tell this story and proud of it?

Kate Williams: 13:30

Yeah, it's really cool. And I'm sure we're not even aware of some of the great stories out there, but some companies like put it front and center in job postings. So they make it like we are a company that does this. I was stopped by an employee at a trade show who's saying, I joined this company because they're 1% for the planet. They lead with it. One company in Maine in particular does a beautiful job of this, really talk about their success in terms of 1% for the planet. So this main beer company, it's like super simple math, again, simple, but they talk about their like annual achievements, not in terms of revenue, but in terms of the amount that they've given away. So again, it's just math. It's like doing 1% instead of the like 100%, but it changes the game because then it's a different conversation and employees are motivated by and celebrating, we gave this much away. And to give that much away, they had to sell this much beer. But the point is that you get to give it away. So I love that one because I think it's a great example. We have some other companies that have really interesting ways in which they engage employees in identifying who they want to give to. So in some cases, they'll have a whole like pitch event. So the employees will get to do some research, it has to be aligned with the company's strategy. They'll come back, they'll share their nonprofits, people get to vote. And so the employees are then really engaged. I could go on. There are really, you know, some great ways that companies do that. When the companies get bigger, it is more of a challenge to sort of ensure that the message gets out and is able to sort of filter through the whole team. So, you know, we'll sometimes support that. We'll do like lunch and learns, we'll equip them with information. But it's a huge opportunity and volunteering, so many great ways that companies can get involved.

Ben: 15:09

Well, involved is the word there, isn't it? Don't just tell your employees, actually give them a role in it.

Kate Williams: 15:14

Exactly. Exactly. And actually, one additional example, one of our bigger companies, they do just a huge amount of volunteering. That's a big way in which they implement their 1% is through engaging their employees in volunteering. And they have been just really clear about the ways in which that's given them kind of way above industry standard employee engagement. And that's directly tied to that volunteering. So most of these things, there's like certain actions that have a whole set of positive outcomes. So it's good for the employees, it's good for the business, it's good for their 1% commitment, so it's good for the planet. It all kind of hangs together.

Ben: 15:54

Think everyone would be doing it, wouldn't you? Um I want to move on to kind of the environment more broadly and impact on the environment. You know, I heard a stat the other day. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but it basically said if 1% of Australia's GDP was applied to restoring and protecting nature, it would pretty much solve every environmental problem we have here. Possibly not the global ones like climate change, but certainly the nature-based ones. Would that apply to the whole world?

Kate Williams: 16:19

Probably. I mean, I don't who knows what exactly the math is, but you know, the um something I was just reading recently had the kind of scale of unfunded, currently unfunded um environmental, primarily climate challenges at something like seven to ten trillion dollars. And I know that's a big range when you're talking about trillions, but um the scale we need to be at is talking about every business everywhere, what percentage of that would really drive change. And I do think it's important to be able to kind of, as we were talking about earlier, make it something simple because so often we don't take action because we're like, oh, the climate, global problem, there's nothing that we can do. But it's like, well, actually, you know, the math might lead us otherwise. We found a stat recently that the UN has said that 0.1% of global GDP would prevent ecosystem collapse. I don't know exactly the details behind that. I find that a little like preventing collapse as opposed to securing a thriving future. I lean towards the like, let's secure a thriving future. So I think we probably need more than 0.1%. But I do think I like that way of thinking because again, I think anything we can do to take what seems amorphous, impossible, you know, how are you going to know if you're making progress? All of those things that like make us not motivated to do our seven minutes a day. If you can break it down into some real numbers, even if they're enormous and ultimately impossible to fully achieve, we can start making real progress.

Ben: 17:48

1%, this is the thing. You go seven to 10 trillion. I think quite frankly, most people, myself included, don't really know what that number means. You know? Whereas if you look at it and you say, if 1% of all GDP, you know, you're applying it at a company level, why don't we just apply it to the global GDP level? It just seems so ridiculously simple that if we did that, hey guys, we'd get a planet to live on, like pretty good outcome for a pretty small price, right? I think one of the barriers to this, someone said to me the other day, you know, the environment is everyone's problem. Therefore it's kind of no one's problem. So what have you seen work or what's it gonna take to get whether it's a CEO or a person making decisions in our company or just me buying a product to see that if it is everyone's problem, everyone has to do something?

Kate Williams: 18:31

Yeah, I think it's that's such an important point because I do think we often talk about our biggest competitors paralysis, because people are like, I'm gonna do the wrong thing, I don't know what to do, I'm overwhelmed, little old me, like how am I gonna impact this big global system? And so what we believe, what I believe, is there are a few things that we can do. One is do you want to talk about like the 1% impact? So our 800 million US dollars, that's what we've certified lifetime, and we're on track to get to a billion. And those are big numbers. We can maybe wrap our heads around those a little bit more, but even still, they're big. But what's amazing about that 800 million and about what our billion will be in the next billion is that it's made up of literally hundreds of thousands of individual donations made by small, medium, large businesses that are identifying what they care about, what they think matters, and they're committing to it and being consistent. And so I think to me, that's the key, and that's like has the sort of kernel of the answer to your question is what makes it my problem and not nobody's problem. And what enables me to sort of step into that is me putting some thought into what do I care about? Like I love running on trails that grounds me every day. So, what are things that I can do to protect that thing that I love? I have energy for that. So there is great data, and a lot of what we do and think about is really essentially psychology. Like people invest in and put time into what they care about. So, you know, there we often are told or sometimes even scolded, like we should identify the most pressing problems and get all the dollars going to those. And our belief is like actually, we need to surround the whole planet with thoughtful strategic impact that aligns with what individuals and companies care about, because then they're gonna keep doing it and that's gonna change, create change at scale. We do have a clear point of view around impact. We do structure it, we do give a lot of guidance, but within that, we really see the value of companies being passionate and individuals being passionate and saying, this is you know something I care about, so I can make it my problem because then I can also make it my solution.

Ben: 20:39

You know, I did a lecture for a bunch of American students about a year ago, and I was warned beforehand by the lecturer bringing them over. Look, half of these kids don't believe in climate change. La la. I said, that's okay. And I got up and I said, I don't really mind what you believe in, but I can show you with all these examples of companies doing something about something, there's something for everyone. So you just pick your cause. And it was really interesting because they all really engaged to that. And I was kind of happy with myself, but then I it sat slightly uncomfortably with me too, that that I have to like trigger the selfish motive to create greater good. You know, is it is that just built into us humans that we'll only act on things that affect us personally?

Kate Williams: 21:18

Yeah, it's a good question. And I guess I maybe I choose, or maybe I just don't see it that way. Cause I just believe that part of what I really appreciate about us as humans is that we do like the strength of love, honestly, to just go there. Because I think we will invest in and lean into and feel grief about and have the strong emotions that often lead us to develop deeper understanding and commitment. And I think that we seem to have forgotten that we are actually part of and in relationship with at a deep level the natural world. And so I do think it's not just kind of woo woo to talk about love, because I do think that's an important drive. That isn't just self-interest. I think it is more like the care that comes when we really acknowledge that we're in relationship with something. And in this case, it's like people and planet. Though we are there is a deep, longstanding human relationship with planet Earth. We are not separate from it. And so I think anytime we can tap into that is going to be a superpower.

Ben: 22:22

I just love what you're saying that and bro. We are a part of nature, not apart from nature. But also you've redefined it so nicely. It's not about a selfish emotion, it's about finding the things you have emotional attachment to. And even that I find to be an interesting conversation because business is always done on this strange belief that everything's rational. Yet anyone who's ever worked in motivation knows that we're fundamentally emotionally driven. And what you said there aligns beautifully with some research I saw at a green piece once that basically said when we work in environmental space, we think of the environment quite holistically and quite big. But for the average person, the environment is their local park, it's their fishing spot. Which, if you then break that down as a human level, it's not just the place they go, it's the place they go to breathe out. It's the place they go to feel calm and like they are a part of the planet. So triggering that in people is actually what we need. And then that leads you to the next step, which is well, how do we get more people out in nature to make them appreciate it, to therefore want to save it, right?

Kate Williams: 23:16

Yeah, I think that's all so true. And I do think I know that not everyone has the ability to get out into like big wild places. So I really think it can be that local fishing spot or that local park. And I think that's important. And I guess one thing I would just add too is I'm a big both and thinker. And I do think the emotional connection doesn't mean you can't then care about the parts per million of pollution in that fishing spot. In fact, probably if you have a deep level of care, the numbers of like if there's parts per million of some pollutant in that water that you care about, you're gonna pay attention to that more and be able to process and make sense and act on that more. Whereas if you came at it from the other angle, like some distant place that you don't have a connection to and you hear about the data about it, it may be harder to fully engage in how you protect that. So I do think we can, we are keep, we are complex beings. We are capable of having both an emotional attachment that can then lead to a very analytical or be coupled with a very analytical approach to how we respond.

Ben: 24:15

Yeah, that's so interesting because the emotional leads and the scientific teaches us how to create the change that our emotion asks us to. Thank you. Of all a lot of projects, as you said, 800 million US, over a billion Australian, which are the ones you're most proud of?

Kate Williams: 24:31

Boy, that's a hard question because it really does come down to these really individual local decisions. So I guess I'm gonna answer your question slightly differently. I think what I'm most proud of is the fact that we're driving a large pool of resources to environmental solutions in a very distributed way. So we've set up a movement that enables really local distributed decisions to be made about how to implement activities. So I just want to say that that's like really what I'm most proud of is the system that we've built that enables that. If I had to sort of pick one, it's not because it's the best of all the rest. It's just one that is interesting to me. So maybe I'll use this one because it was um tribute to Jane Goodall, because she was one of the founders of this. But we have a nonprofit called the Thin Green Line, and it's focused on training and supporting rangers. It's really important resource in protecting wildlife from poachers and often just maintaining the habitat. And so we had them speak at one of our global summits, and they were able to sort of convey their love of what they do and the real challenges. Like they are killed on that thin green line by poachers sometimes, by wild animals. So it was really just an amazing opportunity when we had them speak to sort of hear that, like really specific. What they're focused on is we want to train and take care of these rangers so that they can do this important work that's not very well known publicly, that's in the backcountry by nature, so people aren't seeing it every day. But it is this important thin green line that is protecting so much of what we care about on the planet. So that's an example that comes to mind.

Ben: 26:11

It's a really gritty one. Hey, it's very practical. And as you say, it's got people putting their lives on the line for wildlife. Yes, exactly. And there's so much of this going on in the world that as you say, the stories just don't get told, you know. It's um I find that really hard promoting environmental things. It's basically if you've got a cute furry thing, people love your project. If you don't, really hard to get people emotionally attached.

Kate Williams: 26:33

Yeah, exactly. And I do think that's again like credit to our random marketing team and also just to our members and partners, because oftentimes, even if it's not like a, you know, a fuzzy animal telling the story of partnerships, of teams that have worked with a nonprofit to do something and just sharing some of that story, there is something about that that again, even if it's not fuzzy, has some value to it.

Ben: 26:56

Yeah. Um, what do you think in terms of there's so many environmental projects out there? You know, it's almost infinite. If you had a magic wand, a single-use magic wand, that you could solve one environmental problem, or maybe a a single-use um genie lamp, so you get three. You know, what would be the big ticket items you would solve?

Kate Williams: 27:16

Yeah. Um I think uh maybe I'd do a few things. One is I would create a way for every person to have a direct connection with a sort of healthy, natural place every day.

Ben: 27:28

Seven minutes.

Kate Williams: 27:29

That would yep, seven minutes. So I would do that. That would be my like magic wand. And then I think maybe the second thing I would do is really seek to engage people in a like planet and people mode of thinking. So our four impact areas are just economies, resilient communities, rights to nature, and conservation and restoration. And one of the things that we're trying to do in articulating our definition of environmental, which is effectively what that is, is to kind of have it be connected between planet and people and not force, again, me both and thinker, not force us to think of their social causes and their environmental causes and they're always separate, but more to look at like at the community level, at the individual level, at the global level, what are the you know issues and what are the nonprofits within those issue areas that are sort of working to solve problems where people and planet are sort of connected together. So I think, you know, my second magic wand would be to create more spaces in the environmental movement where where we are able to like see and validate and invest in those people-planet connections. Cause I think that has such a ripple effect. Because then when communities, like say there's a community that's disproportionately affected by pollution from industrial plant, that's an environmental issue and it's also a human issue, and it's also a socioeconomic issue. So when we can understand those issues in that way and like legitimately frame them in the environmental space as well as the human space, I think it just gives us the ability to sort of think better and solve better.

Ben: 29:03

Interesting. So you you've basically chosen ethos as the number one thing you would change, which is getting people to number one, have a connection to nature, but then understand how connected nature is into our lives and livelihoods.

Kate Williams: 29:17

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's truly the common ground. And I think that is an important concept because I think so often, unfortunately, environmentalism can land as a divisive issue, but it actually is perhaps our most common ground we stand on.

Ben: 29:32

It's true, isn't it? It gets seen as us versus the planet. Oh, if you protect it, we can't extract it and we can't make money. But it's just changing that way of thinking is basically fundamental to our survival on earth. Um speaking of changing ways of thinking, I'm always, you know, obviously there's very interesting innovation for sustainability. I like to think of it more broadly as creativity for sustainability. When people think of this, they often think of a new product or a new this sort of thing, a new technology, whatever it might be. But uh, you said in a previous interview, a promising innovation in the space is the shift towards alternative ownership models, which is really innovation of business model and how we actually structure ownership. Can you talk to me about that a bit more?

Kate Williams: 30:12

Yeah, absolutely. So at an even higher level, like at 1% for the planet is essentially kind of a proof of concept that capitalism can be done differently. So 1% for the planet is 100% operating within the capitalist structure, but we're creating a way that businesses can be like, yeah, but like instead of this 1% accruing to the owners, we're gonna give it to the planet. It's gonna be an investment in the planet. I like thinking about how we get to do capitalism differently. And I think ownership is another piece of that. And I think there's a lot of interesting innovation kind of getting going in that area now. And, you know, it includes everything from, and it's not some of it's not new, but I think the rate and the understanding of the potential of it has is feeling more innovative recently because you know, employee ownership has been around for a while, but there's now some interesting new ways in which people are using purpose trusts as a way to instead of when say a founder is exiting their company, instead of selling to private equity, another owner, or dissolving, or what are all of the different ways in which exits happen and go well or go poorly, but oftentimes lose the thread on any values that they had. A purpose trust is a way that a company can kind of codify what they stand for, what they value in perpetuity. So Patagonia is the most recent biggest example of that in terms of how they set up a structure where they are governed by, like the voting shares are owned by a purpose trust. And annually the company retains the income it needs to grow and thrive, but then all the other profit goes to the holdfast collective, where it's distributed to causes and solutions that are in line with the company's values. And that is now locked in. Like that is the legal structure that will operate that company in perpetuity. And to me, that's really fascinating because on the flip side, you know, you can read stories almost every day of purpose-driven companies that whoever they got bought by. And over time, there's often an erosion of those values. Ben and Jerry's has been in the news a lot lately around having been purchased by Unilever a number of years ago, but in recent years, some more changes and very recently sufficient changes that the original owners, Ben and Jerry, are like, you know, we might want back in because this is not going in the direction that we had thought was locked in. So I do think ownership, when we're thinking about long-term change. And again, you know, when we I was referencing earlier that 1% for the planet represents that accountability or discipline partner, that member who described it in that way, that you finish an initiative, but you still have this commitment. There's still solutions that need investment. The ownership piece is an even longer-term way of thinking about that. How do you ensure that the whims of new ownership, new management won't erode or erase the commitments that have been made? So I find that fascinating, and particularly because a lot of it is just like right there. You don't have to move outside of capitalism. You don't have to change the whole system. You just have to have the creativity to think a little differently.

Ben: 33:15

It's interesting because 1% is fundamentally a philanthropic model that you build in. But that's next level. It's saying nature becomes, in many ways, an owner of the business, much in the way, as you pointed out, you've had um employee ownership models. And that itself, you know, if you ask me, there's three fundamentally big problems we need to solve on earth. One is climate change, one is deforestation, such as destruction of nature biodiversity, and the other is actually inequality, because I think it fundamentally feeds the other two really badly. You know, people talk about you know, Brazilian cattle farmers have got to stop ripping down rainforests and Indonesian farmers have got to stop ripping down orangutan habitat. But you go, have you ever thought like they're probably living pretty subsistence, and that's why they're doing it? And it's the the in equal distribution of wealth that actually causes a lot of this. And so when you talk like that, you go, well, what if there was better distribution of the profits to both the environment, which is fundamentally what every business relies on survive, but also to the workers. It's absolutely it's a just a more it's I guess it's a fairer version of capitalism.

Kate Williams: 34:16

Yeah. And uh not getting into the specific legalities of different structures, it's all available to us. Like a owner could say, I'm good, I have enough. Um and I have heard business owners who are shifting into more distributed ownership models with employees, with purpose trusts, say, like, that's part of it is like acknowledging that as an owner, the goal isn't to accumulate everything I possibly can. It's to ensure that there's a sort of value distribution across the different value creators. Um, I think it's a um, to me, it's a really interesting and it's challenging, you know, if you have investors or if you don't have a lot of money sitting in the bank, it can be tra a challenging transition. But I do think it is really interesting and has a lot of potential. And there does seem to be a lot more conversation about that.

Ben: 35:03

I feel like we're in this sort of ideological fight where on one hand we're moving that way, and you've got obviously the Patagonia model, and that's one of the biggest pieces of news environmentalism ever, right? Basically giving away the company to future benefit of the planet. On the flip side, we just got our world's first trillionaire. You know, it's almost like we're torn between everything comes to me and let's be more fair, and we're just going totally different directions.

Kate Williams: 35:30

Exactly. Yeah.

Ben: 35:31

Talk to me about you a little bit. CEO of 1% for the planet is a pretty interesting job. And you've been there for 10 years, so it must be a pretty good job. But um, I reckon you'd have to have a fairly interesting pathway to get there. How on earth does one become CEO of 1% for the planet? I'm sure there's a lot of people would like to know.

Kate Williams: 35:48

Yeah. Well, I mean, started by me never ever until I became CEO saying I want to be a CEO. Um so basically I had an aha moment when I was 18. I got to spend some time in some big mountains in the western United States. And on that trip, I just realized really clearly, like, I absolutely loved both the sort of big wild places and I loved the work of being with a group. I was, you know, I was part of a group in on this trip. And um, you know, it was hard. And I just found myself like, oh, I'm kind of actually fascinated by like, how do you get a group of people to do a hard thing together and maybe even have fun in the process? So those two things, when I was 18, I got interested in those and have been kind of the red thread for me. I did start out as an outdoor educator, did that for a number of years on the theory back to what we were talking about, that if I can create the opportunity for more people to have that kind of experience, that's a way that I'm sort of contributing to building passion for wild places and the outdoors. And then I transitioned into working on the nonprofit side as I kind of became more interested in leadership. And I was an executive director of another nonprofit for 10 years before moving to 1% for the planet was actually a uh 1% for the planet environmental partner. We use different language at the time, but the nonprofit I ran was that. And then um just kind of serendipity and all of that experience led me to become CEO of 1% for the Planet. So I would say, like in a nutshell, I do think it is like follow what you love and serendipity and planning in sort of equal measure often how good things come to pass.

Ben: 37:24

It's true, isn't it? Bit of focus, bit of luck. But serendipity is a good word. It's better than luck, isn't it? Serendipity is like it all just suddenly clicks together versus one fortunate event.

Kate Williams: 37:35

And you have some conversations, like your intention like leads to a conversation what leads to some serendipity, which leads to some intention. So I think it kind of iterates.

Ben: 37:43

And you're in Vermont, right?

Kate Williams: 37:45

Yes.

Ben: 37:45

What's it about Vermont? Ben and Jerry's, Bill McKibben wasn't born there, but he lives there. Bernie Sanders. It's like this powerhouse central place of like environmentally focused individuals, environmentally focused, like superstars, actually.

Kate Williams: 38:01

Yeah.

Ben: 38:01

What is it about Vermont?

Kate Williams: 38:03

I know. It's a good question. I don't fully know the answer. I can like guess that it's something to do with we all are like it's a very rural state. So we all live like nature is a big part of our lives. We live on dirt roads. We are both elevated by beautiful natural experiences. You know, it's not uncommon for people to share photos of a moose they saw in their yard or an owl or whatever. And, you know, we also share stories of like getting stuck in the mud on our roads. So like experience with nature is very present in our lives. And the culture is really built around that. Like you get together with people for a hike more than you get together with people for drinks. So that's some of that. I do think I guess I would say that's the main thing. It has, you know, uh also a fairly intellectual bent. So it's, you know, it's a lot of people living rurally who are intellectually inclined in close proximity to people who have been farming the land for a long time. And so it has like some interesting rubbing of shoulders and, you know, both between people and between people in nature, that somehow seems to create something smart, I don't know.

Ben: 39:06

Practical nature lovers, huh?

Kate Williams: 39:07

Yeah, I guess so. That's maybe a way to describe it.

Ben: 39:10

Yeah, well, keep them come.

Kate Williams: 39:11

Yeah.

Ben: 39:12

So back to you. I think I can speak for everyone working in environmental causes. Sometimes it can be a little bit depressing. It can get you down. You know, there are wins and wonderful things, and but underneath it all, there is this somehow pressing urgency that maybe this is not happening fast enough and this does not end well. How do you deal with that? How do you deal with the kind of keeping up hope and staying positive that this will all work out if we all keep doing what we can?

Kate Williams: 39:37

Yeah, I think it's probably a couple things. One is that I'm like a pretty process-oriented person. So I don't think any of us know how it's gonna end. We can make a lot of predictions, many of them very reliably analytically made, but nonetheless, none of us actually know how it's gonna end. So I tend towards process, meaning in the absence of knowing I'm gonna do the best I can every single day. And that is highly motivating for me. So, like knowing that I'm engaged in meaningful work that matters and that's like moving things forward towards an uncertain future, but that's gonna certainly be better if we make effort as opposed to not making effort. Like that gives me like a lot of belief. And then I also think um, I get to have conversations with amazing businesses and nonprofits every single day. And so I know that there is hard work being done and to not sort of believe that that matters to me is a big miss. Again, none of us know how it's gonna turn out. We have some setbacks along the way, but to not invest in and believe in the effort and outcomes that we are creating along the way is missing an opportunity to build momentum. So I very much stay on the side of that.

Ben: 40:44

That's so interesting because my wife is very good at staying calm and collected through all things. And she's always like, focusing on the past will make you depressed, focusing on the future will make you anxious. And almost what you describe there is I don't know what the future is, so I'm not gonna actually focus there. I'm just gonna keep focusing on what I can do each day, which is so interesting, isn't it? Because sustainability is fundamentally about the long term. Yet the focusing on just little things you can do every single day is how you get there. The other bit that you unpack beautifully there is the importance of community and everybody supporting each other, like the feeling in not in this alone. Because it can feel lonely, you know, especially I'm sure I speak for everyone who's ever worked in environmentalism. You've probably been in a room where everyone's just going, Oh, here comes the grainy. You know, you are often the lone nut in the room. So making sure you get all the lone nuts together and feel like you're part of something kind of helps keep you going, right?

Kate Williams: 41:36

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I also am just like super interested in all of this. Like I'm very curious about what is it that makes people change or invites them to change behaviors? What is it that invites people to take action? What is it that adds up to material change at a high level? I am very curious about that. And I do think curiosity definitely is uh keeps me going. And then I would also say, like back to like the outdoors and like just that direct connection with nature. You know, a lot of the metaphors that are in my like body and brain have to do with like time spent in big mountains. And when you're doing kind of high-stakes travel in like mountain environments, like you got to focus. You don't know if you're gonna make it to the summit. You can't know. You don't know if a storm is gonna come in. You don't know if the people with you are gonna run out of food or whatever. So what you need to do is plan as well as you can and then be in the moment and be like ready to deal with what comes your way. And for, you know, that is sort of a lot of how I you like navigate life outside of the mountains as well.

Ben: 42:35

It's a very courageous way of living. I don't think most people are that comfortable with uncertainty like that.

Kate Williams: 42:40

I do have a pretty high degree of comfort with change and uncertainty, which has been an important thing for me to learn as a leader because not everyone does. And so it's been important for me to understand like how to explain and pace and like manage through change when I need to assume that most people are not as comfortable with that. But yeah, it's been I've been living in uncertainty and change for most of my career. So I have developed some skills and comfort level.

Ben: 43:06

You could argue it's the human condition, and we spend a lot of our lives trying to get rid of it, you know. But how do you do that? I mean, I don't want to let you stop there because that's that's really interesting. I think if you look at it, both environmental movement, but as you said, just leadership in general. No business, no movement, no new business, no innovation, no anything really knows the future. No person. And what you're talking about is getting comfortable with that yourself, but also helping those around you be comfortable with that. You got any hot tips for how you do that?

Kate Williams: 43:34

You know, I think uh being as like clear, transparent, and articulate as possible about what you're trying to do. So, like with our team, we talk really openly and try to name like what are how are people feeling about this? What are the comfort levels with this? And acknowledging, like, I, you know, there have been times when I've been like, oh, I'm way more comfortable, or me and this person are sort of more comfortable. And that led us to move more quickly than we should have. And so we need to own that, slow down, back up. And I think a lot of leadership, not just in this dimension, is about being ready on a regular basis to own the ways in which you have made mistakes or misread the situation or move too quickly or too slowly or whatever thing you've gotten wrong, which is going to happen on a regular basis. And I think the more I have been in leadership roles, the more comfort I've developed with just knowing that that's going to be part of it is like owning and learning and kind of continuing to move on.

Ben: 44:30

And going at a pace that's more comfortable with it for your whole team rather than perhaps you might be comfortable with a faster pace. Do you find you have you just push them slightly out of their comfort zone? Is that the way you do it or you let them live within it?

Kate Williams: 44:42

Well, it's a really good question because I, you know, I do think probably I have a really awesome team right now. Our leadership team is so strong. And I think one of the things we do well is we kind of at different times, different people will be the ones who are putting a little tension on the system. And I do think it's the role of leadership generally to set people up to execute successfully, but then to always be ready to put the next little bit of tension on the system. And the the challenge is like, what's the right level of tension? And also knowing that you're not operating in a vacuum. So there are going to be other sources of tension coming from the external world. So then you might have thought you were going to push for this, but then you might have to back off because the world is delivering its own measure of tension. So I would say like this a strength right now that our team, I think, is really benefiting from is that we have a lot of people who on our at our leadership level who are good at and you know comfortable with sort of helping to like calibrate the right level of tension for to enable us to grow and innovate and sort of adapt as we need to.

Ben: 45:44

Great answer. Lessons in leadership.

Kate Williams: 45:46

Always.

Ben: 45:47

I will let you go soon because I know you have very busy saving the planet. Um before I do, what's one thing people are surprised by when they find it out about you?

Kate Williams: 45:58

Um I this is a really good question because I feel like there's I'm a pretty straight shooter, so there's a lot of um, there isn't a ton of surprise, but um I have a like a sort of easy simple answer, and then I have a more like substantial answer. The easy simple answer is that I have like a few like party tricks that I'm good at. One of which is that I can um stand on my head on a paddle board on the water for a long time, very comfortably with like wavy conditions. Great Instagram photo. Exactly, exactly. So I've got that, you know, and I'm also very good at backing up trailers. It's like a skill for my ass.

Ben: 46:33

That is really, really hard. I respect that hugely. It's very, very difficult. I've actually been very proud of that skill. I've actually considered I've got a little runabout boat, and I've actually considered going and just finding a massive car park and just driving around for an hour until I can do it because it's so hard.

Kate Williams: 46:50

Messes with your brain. I once got like cheered on by the U-Haul guys when I was like backing a trailer in for them. So proud of that. So those are kind of little things. But I don't know. You know, I do think sometimes, you know, I'll hear like a little bit of surprise when I have amazing children who I'm really close to who are now young adults. You know, I have a really sort of full family life and I have also built a very rich professional life. And I um I think maybe not surprise, but like interest in that, because that is something that, you know, can be hard won. And, you know, I'm certainly proud of that and grateful to my kids and my husband for like being part of making that all work. It's not a me accomplishment, but I do think, you know, sometimes that um does seem to be like a bit of surprise because it's not always that, particularly women, I think, are in roles like this and sort of are able to kind of cultivate some of that on the back end. And again, it's like credit mostly to the other people in my life and not to me, but I do think that's part of who I am and how I show up.

Ben: 47:49

It is hard to do because uh look, any professional role can have infinity of your time if you give it. But family children will also have infinity of your time if you give it.

Kate Williams: 47:59

Exactly.

Ben: 48:00

Infinity divided by two, I guess it's still infinity. Um, last question. The world needs more people like you, leaders who understand the tension, push things a little further, but break the string. And like pioneer these new business models, get more people, more business, more everybody involved, you know. What would be some advice for someone wanting to follow in your shoes? What should they do? A lot of kids coming out of uni these days, look at me, call them kids, young adults coming out of uni these days, wanting to do this to their lives, but don't know how to do it. What do they do? What's your advice?

Kate Williams: 48:32

Um, I would say first, like, you definitely don't want to follow in my shoes, not because they're not like great shoes that I love, but they're the shoes that fit me. I think the one of the keys is really getting clear on what you want to do all day and what you know what you have the passion for. So for me, I am like nerdily interested in how like you organize a group of people, a community, a global network to move towards goals. I like that work. And it's, you know, not everyone would. We have people on our team who are really good at bookkeeping and accounting and storytelling and data analysis. And we need each of them. And so I really think the key is like testing the waters if you don't know just off the top of your head, which is like was very true for me. It took me a while to figure out what I loved. And then, you know, really have that thought in your head, not just like what cause do I care about, but what do I actually want to do all day? Because in fact, that is actually what your life is like. That is what it is, you know, to be CEO of 1% for the planet means that I do work all day, every day. And I don't love all of it, but I love a lot of it. And that is why I can keep doing it. And so I really do think that when you're 20s, 30s, but really any time in your life, talk to yourself directly about like, is this what I enjoy doing every day? Is this, you know, what do I need to understand about myself to know better? Like, do I like to put my head down and get stuff done? Do I like to be more with people? So I think taking the time to get clear on that, which sometimes means doing some things you really don't like doing all day, it's great. Like, cross that off the list. That's a great thing to have happen, even if it's unpleasant in the moment. And then just like continually try and narrow your down, narrow yourself down towards getting to do those things that you love to do all day in service of the causes that you care about.

Ben: 50:13

That's beautiful. Find the cause you care about, then find your super skill that you can bring. Someone's once said, write down the things that give you energy and the things that take energy. Now work out how to do more of the things that give and how to work with people who get energy from the things that take it from you.

Kate Williams: 50:29

Yeah, absolutely.

Ben: 50:30

Yeah. It's been wonderful to talk to you. I super appreciate your time. You're running a very important operation and taking the time to do this is I know adding to your workload and taking away from your family time. So I thank you very, very kindly. Thank you. It's been a great conversation. I appreciated it.

Kate Williams: 50:46

Thanks.